Good Morning Class! Today we will talk about our Founding Fathers intentions for religion in the United States. Are we a religious country as those in the media portray? Is the Tea Party accurate in their claims that the United States is a Christian Nation? Are we living up to the phrase 'Separation of church and State'?
We will answer those questions with two little words... Article 11. What is Article 11 and where do we find it? Article 11 is in the Treaty of Tripoli which was signed by President John Adams on June 10th, 1797. Quiet down class, I know this is new and you obviously have many questions. Oh look, we've run out of time...
We will continue with this lesson next time. In the meanwhile, please be familiar with the northern region of Africa as we explore what was once known as the Barbary Coast. Until then, class dismissed!
Many of our founding fathers were deists, or had beliefs that were strongly deist based on the evidence of their published writing and speeches.
ReplyDeleteDeists believe in a supreme creator, but not in organized religion. They believe that science and nature hold the clues to our existence and that by using reason and careful observation, we can understand ourselves better. Deism specifically disregards ideas such as miracles and God interfering with life. But they do believe in a God and creator. Some types of Christianity (and other religions) are partially inline with Deism, but not the more conservative types of religions.
Deism was considered to be enlightened thinking, and one of the bases for the separation of church from state. Deists were not necessarily anti-Christian, and some bounced back and forth between feeling the need to say they were Christian (to appease certain supporters) and being fully deist. Those holding deist beliefs include Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, John Adams, Alexander Hamilton, among many others.
You will, of course, find just a few ultra conservative Christian websites that will vehemently try to prove that all our founding fathers were devout Christians and intended for a fully Christian country. Read between the lines and you will see that they have only provided a narrow selection of "evidence" to bolster their claim. The wider evidence is what we call full historical documents written in the hand of these great thinkers. Church and State were never meant to be combined. We are a free and open country when it comes to religion, and we should be very proud of that fact.
FidgetTea- you get an A+... and a cup of caffeine of your choice!
ReplyDeletewell I surely can not compete with Fidget, what an A+ answer! I have to say I believe I am a deist, thanks for opening my eyes to that fact Fidget!
ReplyDeleteI was just reading the CNN article. I hate polls and this poll they were talking about was of 3,000 people. This to me is not a cross section of America.
CNN article says this.....
We found that the Tea Party movement makes up a significant number. One in 10 Americans consider themselves part of the Tea Party movement, that's not insignificant," he said. "But it is half the size of those who consider themselves part of the Christian conservative movement or the religious right," he said.
One in ten? That's pretty scary! The Christian right does want this country to be a Christian nation with Christian leaders right down to Christian teachers and Christian trash men. There is NO middle ground with them.
Please don't grade me! LOL!
Sue- you get an A for attendance! lol Thanks for stopping by.
ReplyDeleteAaaaaah sorry for such a lameass answer, but I would have taken a D, so thanks... LOL! I promise to study in my spare time...
ReplyDeleteImpressive FidgetTEA! I'm ready for more of your class ExpressoSelf...
ReplyDeleteIn the context of the times, the Founders were clearly motivated to want to keep religion separated from politics, whatever their own personal beliefs. The age of religious wars in Europe, fought over the supremacy of this or that sect in this or that state, was not far in the past. The idea that religion should be kept out of politics to prevent such violence was "in the air" at the time.
ReplyDeleteMany people back then may not have imagined that freedom of conscience would someday extend to outright atheists, any more than they would have imagined equal civil rights extending to women or blacks. Today we realize that such freedoms must apply to everyone or they mean nothing.
Being openly an atheist in those days was neither respectable nor safe. I suspect that Deism served as a vaguely theistic cover for those who, deep down, knew better.
And yes, about 20% of the country self-identifies with the Christian Right. That sounds scary but it's probably lower than the percentage that has held such beliefs for most of US history. Since 1980 they've been much more politically engaged than before, true, but that's typical of what happens when a group is both shrinking and aware that it's losing a fight.
Sue- Your answers are never lame ass! Funny, coming from such a strong and passionate writer such yourself.
ReplyDeleteBritton- I'm preparing for the next class as I write this. Stay tuned...
753- I should be taking classes from you and FidgetTea! Thanks for your insightful comment.
Going on a coffee break... any takers?
Lone Star Greeting's ExpressoSelf!
ReplyDeleteActually my first visit here, and thank you for the invitation.
Concerning this posting/ article and accompanied link's ... let me be frank here ... for one ... this teabag group I dont think know's anything about the US or their own agenda even, or their religious belief's any more than this O'Donnell character would know a masonic altar from a satanic altar. But many of these folk's actually believe what they espouse, it's simply herd programming, institutional thought, etc. Regardless of what our founding father's believed or thought ... I dont think they had to worry over it as much as 2010 American's do ... they (founding mum's and dad's) in my opinion would be apalled to see what the so called churches of today have become, and their dictatorship programming qualities ... influence in every branch of government, corporate manuevering, their real estate manipulation's and stock market affair's, tax haven's, etc. I reckon it would be even more to handle than trying to escape the clenches of the Church of England it has gotten so ridiculous. Seperation of church and state, like many other pop culture cliches is a joke ... there is no seperation of church and state any more than their is actual equality. These pop culture rehashed ancient religion's is something else they dont even know about, who wroe the bible, why was it wrote, what it mean's etc ... without flash card's telling them what to think ... and I gave up on the mass majority long ago. Teabag's as well as many other's, even on both of these polarizing side's frankly wouldnt have an opinion if it wasnt for the 6:00 news or a media source to tell them what to think and say. My opinion only ... thank you.
Hey RC- Welcome and thanks for stopping by. Your comment is absolutely right on and I'm so lucky to have such smart visitors such as yourself. I'm off to grab another cup of caffeine as I need to be on my toes with all this smart commenting going on!
ReplyDelete